This is a good question and one that I've pondered myself more than
once.  I often see the Van Eaton Galleries selling them at ebay, and
it wasn't too long ago that they would actually start them at $75 !
Now, I think that's too much.  And the reason is that a lot of them
don't resemble the characters very well-- I guess because they're pre-
production stuff done before the character designs were finalized?
(eg. have you noticed that Balto often has more of a facial "mask" in
them instead of separate eyerings?.. so maybe they changed that
somewhat later in the production to make him look less like the other
huskies.)  Also, I just think $75 is too much to pay for a black and
white storyboard-- I mean, it probably took what..?   5-10 minutes to
draw, at most?  So if you pay $75 for it, isn't that like implying
that storyboard artists should be paid about $400-$500 an hour??
:o) Heh heh.
     And it depends a lot on the storyboard itself, too.  Some of them
aren't nearly as detailed or interesting as others, so there should
be some kind of ranking system that differentiates between the more
detailed, expressive ones, and the ones that are kind of "empty"...
If I really saw one I liked, I could imagine paying maybe $35 for
it.. $40 at most.  And I think some of them should sell for less than
that.
    Now, actual *animation* drawings.. that would be something else
entirely...

:o)
--Baltoship
--- In baltosanctuary@y..., "sparf1" <sparf1@y...> wrote:
> YEah, that's right, I'm actually going to write a post on topic.
Just
> a thoughtful question.
>
> How much would you guys say is too much to pay for a storyboard
from
> Balto? I collect these things and I've averaged around 35 dollars
> apiece.

YEah, that's right, I'm actually going to write a post on topic. Just
a thoughtful question.

How much would you guys say is too much to pay for a storyboard from
Balto? I collect these things and I've averaged around 35 dollars
apiece.

But there are people who are so rude on the Internet, that they make
others actively uncomfortable IRL. Here's a good rule to follow:
Unless you have discussed it with the person first, do not call
someone at work, or at home...in fact, don't call them at all! The
only exception is when you've already called them before and they're
friends of yours and you want to surprise them...but even then.

It's downright RUDE and...ugh....I won't even go into it.

> "oic ur not talking 2 me now"

*Screams* Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! *runs away*
That's a HUGE pet-peeve of mine. Since when have humans become so lazy
that they can't type -two extra letters?!-  "You" has a 'y' and
'o'...is it so hard to lift your fingers and talk like a normal person?

That's also seriously messed me up with ages... there are too many
cases when I've talked to someone I thought was 13 and using that
internet type, when it turns out they're in their mid-twenties. I
would hope that someday they'd grow out of it...

-Snow Wolf

Wow. That's...deep

Maybe it's because us cyber-people have evolved farther than those
mundane denizens of the /real/ world. (Real? What means it
this..../real/?)

By the same token, why do we allow people to get away with poor
typing skills? I mean, it's one thing if you're missing a hand. It's
quite something else if you're just too lazy to type out a few extra
letters. And Punctuation!? When did we forget how to punctuate and
capitalize, folks? Come ON, SERIOUSLY!

"oic ur not talking 2 me now"

Things like this make me want to permanently revoke someone's net
connection priveliges and make them live the lives of the pathetic
flatscans who know not the ways of technology. (The Internet High-
Potentate speaks, folks, listen to him. lol.)

Another interesting thing is how certain groups make up words and
those words stick, and are almost like an insider's code within the
group. They're usually entertaining to anyone willing to find out the
origins. "Ecker," "Bubblesense," adding "-ness" to the end of
anything, it's all insider language and it's absolutely "class"

I have one friend who has made up so many words and phrases for
things that she almost has her own language. I admire her for it,
too. You can read examples at
http://www.livejournal.com/users/lalaloveyou

Ok.. I'm going to just babble here and hope that it sparks peoples'
interest enough to reply and hopefully get their friends to join this
club...
  *I* would, but I don't have any friends!  (Badda-BING!!)

(more crickets chirp in the audience.)


Okay, This post of mine is hopefully going to be a trend setter.  In
addition to the usual Balto remarks, I am going to post something
WEIRD that I've noticed, and I hope someone will follow suit with
something weird that *they've* noticed.   Balto posts alone don't
seem to work, so this demands Action in the form of nuttiness.

Commence the addition of nuts!

WEIRD THING #1
     I was in a chatroom the other day and was suddenly struck by the
fact that Chatroomisms are perpetually expanding, but never decaying.
Several years ago, Chatroomisms like "LOL"  came onto the scene.. and
they are still here.  LOL?   Laugh Out Loud.
    What does it even mean?   Well, it's a compliment .. it means
somebody made a funny.   But why not "TF"?   (That's Funny)...  And
why is it "TTFN"?   Who in the world except for rich, snobby people
says stuff like "Ciao"  and "Tah Tah!"... Nobody does.   I mean, if
you seriously said "Tah Tah" in the Real World, people would think
you're fruity or goofy or something.  It is SO goofy that it's almost
impossible to say it seriously.   Unless you're in England.. I
understand they say "TAH!" sometimes, b--

    ANYway.. the point being made here is that People are STILL saying
TTFN and LOL, YEARS after the inception of these phrases.
    Imagine if you will, what a world it would be if people said that
stuff out loud.  "Loll" and "TeeTeeEffEnn" or "Teefin'" or
something....

    Now think back.. WAY back to 1991, when we were all
saying "NOT!" ..  "Not!" had its day in the sun, and then it died
within a period of.. what..  a year or two?
       "Sit on it." "That's a GAS!"  "Radical!"  "Get a
Life"  "Hello?.. McFly?"  "Talk to the Hand"  "LLLOSER!" (making
the "L" with your thumb and index finger, of course.)

.. Our stupid culture is wrought with annoying examples of
catchphrases that just aren't cute anymore.  And our newest?  Why,
our newest is "Get over it"... and, to lesser degree, "Get over
yourself."   I will be very happy when these die.   Some of our
annoying phrases are already on life-support after having a
relatively brief run  ("BIOTCH" and "PHAT", for example.) While
others seem to keep hanging on in obscurity ("Word." for example,
and "Word Up.") even though they need to be euthanized as well.

    But WHY is it, that phrases like TTFN and LOL, and especially
ROFLMAO, persist in chatrooms, despite being overused and getting on
peoples' nerves?   (LOL is acceptable, but "ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOO" is
REALLY irritating.)
Well, you say, they're abbreviations.  So abbreviations are exempt
from the passage of time which lends itself to annoying overuse?
Does this mean that we'd still be saying "TAG" (That's a Gas.)in this
day and age, if we'd figured this out in the 70s?    Or what
about "G" (Groovy!)...
     Or does it have to do with READING the words instead of HEARING
them?  Isn't it weird to think that people are so much more sensitive
to what they hear rather than what they see?  Reading it in a
chatroom is ok..  But a person SAYING the same thing verbally makes
you want to punch them?

    And why isn't there just a natural evolution with Chatroomisms?
How come "LOL" doesn't just get replaced by something *better*?  Like
TSF (That's so Funny) or SLAYJ  (Still Laughing at Your Joke)..
    Lol has been consistently popular, and shows no sign of slowing
down, despite it having more than a 5 year run and being used
CONSTANTLY.

     If "Not!" had been going on that long and people used it that
often....   I shudder to think.
    The human race would have self combusted in 1996.

I mean, there might not even be a planet here anymore.


That said... on to


WEIRD THING #2:

    Why is "Cool" still popular?   Cool is the only slang word that
has been around and around, and never dies.   And no one seems
annoyed by it.  Cool just STAYS cool.   Somehow.

:o)
--Baltoship



"Tag, man."
"G."

YES! They get a few members then they go pffffffffffffffffft. Kinda
like StellarFoxes, my Starfox group! C'mon people, I built this for
you guys! Abuse the post link! *grin*

Sparfaroo

Good song, and very appropriate, I must say. *nods*

They say that every generation has a defining moment. One of those
times when you will always remember exactly where you were and what
you were doing when you heard/saw the news. Perhaps, then, this is
ours, just as Kennedy's assassination was the defining event for many
of our parents, and the bombing of Pearl Harbor for their parents.

One day maybe everything will all make sense. I lost many brothers
and sisters on 9/11/01, but I also gained a greater kinship with my
colleagues left behind. And we will always be secure in the knowledge
that, though we were humbled on that day, those responsible could not
break our spirit. Instead, it unified us in a way the world has not
seen since World War II. And now, a year later, the healing process
is well underway.

A lot of people have a tendency to take their fire departments,
police departments, and EMS for granted. Next time you're out and see
a firefighter on the street, or driving down the road in a fire
truck, or the next time you see a policeman, or an EMT, wave and
say 'hello', or maybe even 'thank you'.

It doesn't matter whether it's volunteer or paid, all firefighters
are 'professionals'.

Already one year has passed since that terrible morning.

I wanted to quote the famous Bob Dylan song, written fourty years
ago, but always, expecially now, very topical.


"How many roads must a man walk down
Before you call him a man?
Yes, 'n' how many seas must a white dove sail
Before she sleeps in the sand?
Yes, 'n' how many times must the cannon balls fly
Before they're forever banned?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,
The answer is blowin' in the wind.

How many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
Yes, 'n' how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, 'n' how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,
The answer is blowin' in the wind.

How many years can a mountain exist
Before it's washed to the sea?
Yes, 'n' how many years can some people exist
Before they're allowed to be free?
Yes, 'n' how many times can a man turn his head,
Pretending he just doesn't see?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,
The answer is blowin' in the wind."


I am not American, but I really have to say: GOD BLESS AMERICA.

R.I.P.

>
> Uh, yeah, anyway, we need recruits and postage in here, lol.

    I put up a link at the Spirit Group and I think a couple people
came over from there, but we still need more! 13 isn't a good number,
right??   I read somewhere that they sometimes number the floors in
skyscrapers like 10,11,12,14,15....  I dunno if that's true.. (Have I
ever even *been* in a skyscraper..?)  but I wouldn't be surprised.
People are superstitious.


  Um, but the Balto DVD is really nice and the 5.1 surround sound
track is  absolutely awesome.

   I found a few at ebay and put a bid in, so here's hoping.  :o)
   I still think it's really interesting that there aren't that many
Balto DVDs around.. I would expect tons of them at ebay.  Instead
there are a dozen Balto 2s... and Balto 2 is *ok*, but... I don't
have any desire to get it on DVD, especially if there aren't any
goodies or treats on it.  I have the VHS but I don't watch it very
much.. and when I do, I generally only watch it up until the part
where Sumac and Nava and everybody shows up.. *If* I get that far...
sometimes I stop it right when the wolverines disappear.. and
sometimes when the fox-voice girl does the wolverine voice (I think -
they sound the same to me.) and goes, ".. Why not a fox?  Or did she
outwit you?"  .. And I'm thinking.. "ehh.. weren't you *there* at the
time?"   And then she shows up later and does one of the wolf voices,
too..
    You'd think with all the hundreds of people who make an animated
movie happen, they would be able to rustle up more than half a dozen
voices.
    Anyway, it's a shame Balto wasn't a Dreamworks project, or I bet
it would've gotten the royal treatment.. Instead it's kind of ignored
and it seems like most people think it's a Disney movie anyway.
    I find that funny.. People think it's Disney even though the
word "Disney" doesn't show up anywhere in the movie or on the cover
or anything.  People are funny.
:o)
--Baltoship

Yes, MORE EXTRAS ARE NEEDED!!! THE PRECIOUS!! OH My PRECIOUS!!

Uh, yeah, anyway, we need recruits and postage in here, lol. Um, but
the Balto DVD is really nice and the 5.1 surround sound track is
absolutely awesome. Dolby AC3 forever, baby, yeah!

It figures that most people won't sell their Balto DVDs.... you must
get one; they're spectacular! The sound is sharp and colors very
vivid. I hope VHS stays around a bit longer though...I like those.
Anyways, I have a few copies of the movie on VHS but still got the DVD
for its pure Balto-ness. Good luck in your search...

If you live in America, the DVD only has a stupid game on it;
elsewhere is a long documentary on the making of Balto...I wish I
could see it.

~Snow Wolf

I was just watching Balto again the other day and realizing that I
have to get it on DVD!  But how come when I check ebay, the only DVD
they have is Balto 2?  I thought VHS was supposed to be going extinct-
- so how come ebay is littered with them instead of Balto DVDs??
    How is it anyway?  Does it have extra stuff on it?  And how is the
color and sound?
   I just got The Secret of NIMH dvd last week and was not that
pleased with it-- they have tinkered with the color and made it all
bright and neon.. Even in the dark and shadowy scenes, you can see
all these glowbright colors.   I like the VHS way better!  There the
color is subtle and "real" looking.

:o)
--Baltoship

--- In baltosanctuary@y..., Alinaya Moondancer
<alinaya_moondancer@y...> wrote:
>
> *turns on heavy rock music and starts shouting* DON'T YOU ALL THINK
BALTO IS THE GREATEST? I CAN'T WAIT FOR BALTO 3!!! *sees everyone
staring at her* *ehem* Anyways..when is it coming out, do ya know?
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

*turns on heavy rock music and starts shouting* DON'T YOU ALL THINK BALTO IS THE GREATEST? I CAN'T WAIT FOR BALTO 3!!! *sees everyone staring at her* *ehem* Anyways..when is it coming out, do ya know?

Come on, guys, we went all silent!! Let's be loud! After all I made
this club for talking, dinnt I?

Well, lessee....I liked Balto 2....and I liked the
singing...well...*blushes* I liked all of the movie. Wasn't the
greatest ever but you know, it was servicable. I HATED BORIS's VOICE
ACTING! UGH! I could have done a lot better.....but nooo, I'm not in
the buisiness, so they get Commander Yiddish. *bangs head* If he's in
Balto 3, please GOD let them improve his voice acting.

Mark Hamil is a VA God.....
not as much as Jim Cummings though.
And maybe, one day...Me. *cackles evilly*

I hope they stop at 3 Baltos.  In reality 3 is an odd number, but for
movie making it turns out to be a nice little even number.  And
triology has a nice ring to it. ^_^  As for stopping at 3, it could
go either way, the producers at universial could decide that 3 is
enough, or the third movie could do so well that they decide squeeze
Balto for all it's worth...

As for merchandise i'm sure no one would object (much) to that.  I
mean it was a real shame that besides the movie, and a few special
items in the UK, Balto 2 had no merchandise released.  I dunno if
it's wishful thinking or not, but I hope they decide to do something
special with Balto 3.

As for songs, they seem to work best if the characters don't sing
them, sorta like in Spirit.  But they're not quite as frequent as
disney, who churns out a song at a rate of every 15 minutes (I timed
it one bored day ^_^;;;).

As for the possibilities of spiritual references, i'm neutral.  For
me it depends on where the movie is going (prequel or continuation of
the Wolf Quest).

And finally nice artwork Moondancer (is it okay if I call you
that?)!  I like the coloring the best, it somehow gives a nice soft
look to the characters. :)

Wow it's been ages since I've had a possitive ramble at a *group*.
*wags tail* lol.

~Silver Huskey
*Who is thankful to Sparf for letting her join a flame free group.*

>    I wonder how many Baltos they're going to make..?  Is it going
to
> turn into The Land Before Time or stop at 3?  I bet they will
> merchandise Balto 3, at the very least-- maybe some fast food toys
or
> something.   I just hope they don't have more singing animals..  If
I
> could make one request, it would be please NO MORE singing !  Why
not
> write up more (and better) dialogue to fill that space?  And a
second
> hope is that #3 will not have the excessive spiritual interference,
> animals forever appearing and disappearing, etc..
>     However it turns out, though, it's bound to be better than the
> Land Before Time marathon.. The Balto story has a lot more
> interesting elements and, especially now, a lot of loose ends that
> give the tale an intricacy that the dino story just never
had.  ..I'm
> way behind on those.  I think I stopped at The Secret of Saurus
Rock..
>
> :o)
> --Baltoship

i don't mind the merchandising..i did buy alot of Spirit stuff, it's a way of keeping the movie close to you. But yes, the singing is rather annoying X.x I like the first one better for that reason..they shouldn't turn it into a Disney 'at least 3 songs a movie' type thing.

there are  so many arguments for and against the white wolf being
Balto's mother.  It all depends on how you look at it! :)
>
     **Mm.. I probably can't say anything that someone else hasn't
already said, but the *overall* effect of it would seem to be
detrimental.. if only because a lot of the subtle, spiritual magic in
the original Balto was wrapped in the white wolf, and that "magic"
got killed when we found out she was his mother... that might have
been ok except that her "character" in Balto 2 was in-your-face non-
fascinating.  "You need to learn the animal totems that will guide
you, my son."  Just out there in plain English, no mystery, nothing
left to your imagination.  (Kinda like a guy in a Speedo? :o)  as
compared to the earlier rendition of the white wolf- this silent,
powerful presence that really piqued your curiosity because you
didn't know anything about it.  (Kinda like a guy in a nice Armani
suit.)
    It could be salvaged, though.. If Balto 3 really gave her good
dialogue and an interesting character, that could amend the damage of
that mystical element being lost..
    I wonder how many Baltos they're going to make..?  Is it going to
turn into The Land Before Time or stop at 3?  I bet they will
merchandise Balto 3, at the very least-- maybe some fast food toys or
something.   I just hope they don't have more singing animals..  If I
could make one request, it would be please NO MORE singing !  Why not
write up more (and better) dialogue to fill that space?  And a second
hope is that #3 will not have the excessive spiritual interference,
animals forever appearing and disappearing, etc..
     However it turns out, though, it's bound to be better than the
Land Before Time marathon.. The Balto story has a lot more
interesting elements and, especially now, a lot of loose ends that
give the tale an intricacy that the dino story just never had.  ..I'm
way behind on those.  I think I stopped at The Secret of Saurus Rock..

:o)
--Baltoship

*Grin* That is NOT my fault! Thanks for reminding me though,
Sparf...I've got to post at TAB! *Sparkles*

I'm the last person you want to get started on this topic; there are
so many arguments for and against the white wolf being Balto's mother.
It all depends on how you look at it! :)

~Snow Wolf

--- In baltosanctuary@y..., "sparf1" <sparf1@y...> wrote:
> Kemo is indeed Balto's mother.
>
> Did I just say Kemo? Snow, it's YOUR fault you know! *grins*
>

Kemo is indeed Balto's mother.

Did I just say Kemo? Snow, it's YOUR fault you know! *grins*

--- In baltosanctuary@y..., "alinaya_moondancer"
<alinaya_moondancer@y...> wrote:
> I posted 3 of my piccys in the fan art section..should I find more
> of mine on my computer, I'll post those as well ^^ Yup..I'm new
> here. And just wondering..does anyone know who the white wolf is?
I
> thought it was his mother, it seems like she is...unless it's his
> grandmother, I think they said something about that in the second
> movie..

I posted 3 of my piccys in the fan art section..should I find more
of mine on my computer, I'll post those as well ^^ Yup..I'm new
here. And just wondering..does anyone know who the white wolf is? I
thought it was his mother, it seems like she is...unless it's his
grandmother, I think they said something about that in the second
movie..

--- In baltosanctuary@y..., "starlion3" <starlion3@y...> wrote:
> yo! what's up!
>
> heh, thought I'd drop by and poke my sniffer around. :).
>
> oooh ! finally a Balto topic! :D
>
> well, Balto's model for the movie was different than the real
Balto .
> but I agreee though , be nice to use the same colors of the real
> model.

     **Hey, aren't you from the Spirit group??  :oD  Thanks for
stopping by!
     I thought it was really awesome that they drew from the "real"
Spirit-like horse and made him look just like Donner- even down to
the dorsal stripe.. I admire that kind of accuracy.
     Of course with Balto they wanted to enhance the story with the
wolf element  (I think it was a good idea.) so maybe that was why
they used a model dog who looked more "wolfy".. I still think it
would have been really cool if Togo could have been in the movie
somehow also.

I mean what would happen if someone played you . and the
> person looked nothing like you ? "that doesn't look like me!" I'd
> say .

    LOL, especially because STEELE looks more like Balto than *Balto*
does!   Sort of a slap in the face to the real Balto, I think.. like
saying, "You're the hero, but you're not 'aesthetically pleasing'
enough to LOOK like the hero, so we have to make you prettier!  And
*your* color will go on the villain instead!"   Heh heh.. :o)
   I mean, talk about judging by appearances, eh?
       Still, they did a lot with the wolf storyline and that is hard
to do because a lot of people have such unfair stereotypes against
wolves....

:o)
--Baltoship

>
>

... though no one ever seemed to tell me about any of them.

   LOL.. I think people are afraid to talk about problems.. or at the
very least, they're afraid of the consequences..  (That is a shame
because problems can't get solved and the reduction can't happen when
people don't figure out the cause of the problem and a solution.)
When I first posted here, the very first one, I got an email from
someone who supported what I said, and even said this,

"Many times I have though that many Yahoo groups, such as The Balto
League are rather oppressive and strict. "

    Of course I won't mention his/her name to protect the Identity..
but the point is that this person took the time and courtesy to email
me, but did *not* want to post this message at the group.  And I
think there are lots of people like that at TBL.. People who don't
like what happens there, maybe even hate some aspects of it, but they
don't want to talk about it because they don't want to cause a
ruckus, stir up trouble by challenging the status quo, etc.  That is
understandable, especially because they see what happens to people
who are *not* satisfied with the status quo and want positive
change..  Like me..
    People who take a stand often get bashed the worst, often stand
alone, and then get blacklisted or labeled as some kind of evil
entity no better than a common poltergeist.

    Let me tell ya, it's not easy being Baltoship!  It's tough being
one of the very few who "won't take it lying down" as they say.

    I think it is sad though, when things like the Zeki Situation
happen.. because there you have a person who has totally been
trampled by everybody, even the moderators.. and she *still* stays in
the group.  One might wonder where her self-respect is.. If that
happened to me I'd be out of there in a heartbeat.. but at the same
time you understand that people feel a forced obligation to stay at
TBL.. You know Zeki must be really p***ed off at this point and may
even *hate* how she was treated, but she stays because TBL is the
only really active Balto club, and if you want to talk Balto, you
sort of have to stay there and just "put up" with all the inequity
and flaming and bad treatment.   It is almost like a beaten wife
staying with an abusive husband because she feels she doesn't have
any choice.   I know that's an extreme analogy, but TBL mirrors it
with haunting accuracy at times.


> It's also true that we can have whatever opinion we want on Balto
> II... lots of people at TBL hate it and that's dandy. But though
DWK is the producer, he's a human being too and it's downright rude
to smash the work he's proud of in his face. >

    ***DWKing's presence at the League both enhances the experience
there and somewhat complicates the Free Speech issue.  Still I find
it very interesting that the *Members* and *moderators* tend to get
more upset over B2 criticism than he does.  Do you notice that?  I
mean, considering that he's the producer, and you generally don't see
him flaming the people who hate B2, but other members will.  DWKing
is a grownup and can handle it when people say they hate it.  At
best, he tends to muster just a few ruffled feathers over it.  He is
mature and so is *generally* above flaming.  He can also give some
amount of respect, even for people who say they think the movie is
terrible.  It should be about respecting *everybody's* opinion,
whether it is "I love it" or "I hate it"... If everybody could act
the way DWKing does, the group would work fine.  It is sort of ironic
that DWKing is simultaneously considered the reason why people
shouldn't bash Balto 2, and also the person who is MOST able to
handle this criticism with maturity.
      -- I don't think him being there should immediately take away
people's rights to say they hate Balto 2.  I mean, if *he* can handle
it, why not everybody?  It's true that some people bash it
excessively and gratuitously, and that's going too far.. but I think
you should be able to use strong words if it's really how you feel,
and if you support your point of view with examples and are open to
discussion about it.

  You know what I think would be really cool? If Balto's dad showed up
> in the third movie and they patterned him to look like the real
Balto!

      **Some people were talking about how they thought Nava might end
up being Balto's grandfather.. I hope not (I didn't care for the Nava
character at all.) but I wonder if that will be how they tie it
together that Nava has such a psychic and spiritual connection with
Balto.
    There are just SO many unanswered questions with Balto!  Who *was*
his dad, anyway?  Is he alive or dead now?  (And is Aniu alive or
dead now either, for that matter...?  Is she a ghost now and this is
what explains the disappearing?)  What happened to the rest of
Balto's litter?
    I hope Balto 3 goes into this, because it's great material and
could make #3 much better than #2...
     #2 felt very recycled to me-- the plot with Aleu and Balto was
just like lots of other animated sequels, and the plot with the
wolves was just recycled from the rats of NIMH.
    I liked the ending, though- that was original.

  I was wondering about markings, but as animation standards go, the
> protagonist should not be colored black. Not only does it go
against the good/evil coloring (such as black bear versus white wolf),


   ***I get a little weary of the light/dark stereotyping though, when
it comes to animated movies, especially... There was a time in
American cinema (about.. ohhh... 60 years ago?) when the light/dark
thing was exaggerated to Nth degree to please audiences.) but we live
in an enlightened time now - shouldn't we be able to think outside
the color box?  If nothing else, it's nice when you can look at
characters and *not* immediately *KNOW* whether they're going to be
good or evil just by the way they look.  Making cartoons so readable
like that will only teach little kids to see darkness as being evil
and lightness as being good.  I was slightly put out when I saw that
Steele and the bear were the only real antagonists in the movie, and
also the darkest colored characters.. especially since huskies are
black quite frequently!  I think it would have been more color-
neutral to have a couple of black dogs on the husky team.. even if
they were undeveloped characters, at least it would balance out the
color thing, and counteract the, "OH, it's *black*, therefore it is
evil."
I'm aware people have criticized Lord of the Rings for this same
reason, and I *did* find the light/dark color stereotyping in that
movie to be a little distracting.    Of course they were trying to
follow the book, so if they deviated from that, people would have
probably criticized the movie for that reason!
   LOL.. it's hard to be a filmmaker!!
    Still, I could have done without the in-your-face exaggeration of
it.. I mean, the black Ringwraiths were one thing, (I thought they
looked really cool, actually.) but, to have Liv Tyler show up on her
beautiful, gleaming white horse, and to have the evil spies to be a
huge group of black crows... egh.. a little too much.  The Lone
Ranger and The Birds are both *very* tired images, if you ask me!
Sticking to the book is one thing, but they ought to also consider
that the American movie-going public has advanced a little and been
exposed to a LOT since the '40s.. Namely several wars and a giant
civil rights movement which led to more than one assassination, and
wholeheated attempts to get people to *stop* seeing Black as
representing inferior, bad, evil and whatnot.  I mean, people *died*
for this, y' know? ...  I think it would be cool if movie characters
were colored in a more "meaningless" way, more like real life.. where
you would have a sled dog team with some black and white huskies,
some orange, etc.  .. I don't follow the iditarod stuff, but I think
you'd be hard-pressed to find a sled dog team that has just *one*
black husky and all the others brown or orange..  That's what was
more "real" about Snow Dogs..  there were lots of *good* black dogs
on the team.

  but he would have looked like a fuzzy blob in some of the darker lit
scenes!

    **Yes, this is true. Especially in that underfloor scene with
Jenna when they look up through the floor grating.  Maybe they
shouldn't have made him all black, but I would have given him a black
dorsal pattern or a black tail or something.. just something as a
small tribute to the "real" Balto's color.
    I am sure people have noticed this, but I haven't been to the
League regularly so I don't know-- How many people saw the coloring
error in Balto? Near the very end, where they show Balto's ears and
everybody petting him?  And his ears are gray like his body instead
of dark?
     And has anyone found more coloring errors?  That's the only one I
saw, and that's awesome!   For being a fairly low budget movie, they
really did a good job sticking to the patterns consistently!


:o)
--Baltoship

yo! what's up!

heh, thought I'd drop by and poke my sniffer around. :).

oooh ! finally a Balto topic! :D

well, Balto's model for the movie was different than the real Balto .
but I agreee though , be nice to use the same colors of the real
model. I mean what would happen if someone played you . and the
person looked nothing like you ? "that doesn't look like me!" I'd
say .

oh well,

Starlioness

I won't reply to most of the first messages...there's a lot to be
said, but I came here to get AWAY from the fights! :)  With big groups
comes bigger responsibility and more problems... though no one ever
seemed to tell me about any of them. That's what happens when you
don't check very often... I don't even know what happened with
you there, Baltoship. *sigh* I am sorry it had to come down to your
leave.
It's also true that we can have whatever opinion we want on Balto
II... lots of people at TBL hate it and that's dandy. But though DWK
is the producer, he's a human being too and it's downright rude to
smash the work he's proud of in his face. It's called decency.
Anyways...

You know what I think would be really cool? If Balto's dad showed up
in the third movie and they patterned him to look like the real Balto!
I was wondering about markings, but as animation standards go, the
protagonist should not be colored black. Not only does it go against
the good/evil coloring (such as black bear versus white wolf), but he
would have looked like a fuzzy blob in some of the darker lit scenes!

~Snow Wolf

After seeing the real-life pics of Balto I kind of wish they had
decided to make him black or at least dark like he was in real life.
I wonder why they decided not to-- maybe they didn't want him to look
like "the bad guy" or something.. but isn't that just playing into
the color stereotype even more by making Steele mostly black?   When
I first saw Balto I hardly looked at the cover  ( I was so excited I
just ran home and put it in the machine, because I had seen so many
previews and I was living in a really small town at the time, so I
had missed Balto in the theaters, so I couldn't wait to see it!) ..
anyway um.. Oh yeah..  So I didn't really know who was who at
first..?  I saw Steele and for a second I thought maybe *he* was
Balto.. but then I saw that "evil" look in his eye during the sled
dog race, and I saw the black, and put it together that he was going
to be sort of the stereotypical villain of the movie, even down to
his coat color.
     I think it would have been more original to have Balto be the
black one, (or at least have *more* black on him than he did.)
because then he could end up being the Hero in Black, and that's
something you don't often see in animated movies... A lot of wolves
are born black, too, so that would work fine.
    Still, it's cool that they gave him his little "sock feet" *sort
of* like the real Balto had.
     Do you guys think in Balto 3 they will tell us who Balto's dad
was and show what he looked like?  (Honest, my money is on Balto 3
being either a Prequel, or at least a sequel with lots of flashbacks.)
    I am way more excited about Balto 3 than I was about Balto 2,
though I hope it is more of a realistic movie than the extensive
spiritual dabbling that 2 is.

:o)
--Baltoship

Well, it's not that they're bad people or anything, but they just go
overboard with the topic sanctioning and post deletions -- They often
delete things for no real reason..   I have also noticed that they
are somewhat intolerant of people who criticize either Balto or Balto
2.. I remember some months back (Classic example of what is wrong
with TBL...)when DarkJicin criticized the character drawings in Balto
2 and put up a link to some fanart of animated wolves that she
thought was better..  And WHAT a stir it caused!!  Oh, everybody was
SO upset with her- everybody attacked her (just because she didn't
like the animation in Balto 2, and said so bluntly.)  and then Acanis
came on the scene and criticized her too, just like everybody else
had, and then FORBID anyone else from responding to her post.  "NO
MORE replies to that post!!"  He ordered.
    It was so silly and ridiculous.  And that was even before the
whole Balto 2 fiasco got underway and right after I had joined the
club, so that made me pretty suspicious of TBL. I learned early on
that if you want to say anything even remotely critical of either
movie, you have to really sugar-coat it, or else you risk getting
flamed by everybody (even some of the founders, apparently.)
      For example, I bet if you went over there and said something
like, "I HATED Balto 2, it was the stupidest movie on earth!  The
drawings were awful... etc."   You would probably get bashed by
people, and maybe a founder or two would be politely rude to you
about how you phrase your post..And yes, that is a tactless way of
expressing yourself but.. let's face it, that's just one person
venting their opinion- not criticizing other people at the group, not
starting a fight or making demands on others... And if people started
arguing, that post would probably get deleted.
    And that's just not right.. I mean, doesn't a tactlessly delivered
opinion have just as much right to be there as a sugar-coated one?
But lots of members at TBL and even some of the founders just can't
handle harsh opinions like that.  They end up deleting them...
     I left the Balto League almost 6 months ago, but I check the
messages periodically to get Balto news and also to read DWKing's
posts, and it seems like every time I go back there, I have just
missed a big fight over Balto 2.. Someone puts up a post saying they
hate it, and then an argument starts, and deleting happens, and then
I get there just in time to read that person's "Groveling Post"
(That's what I call them.)  And that is, the person literally grovels
and BEGS for forgiveness for expressing their dislike of Balto 2 (or
whatever else it was.) .. You know, they've committed some horrible
act by posting their honest, blunt opinion.
    I think that is the worst, that groveling bit.   It's like rubbing
your face in it that you don't have the right to say you hate
something.. and I think people *should* have the right!  I mean, if
they think Balto 2 is the worst movie ever, they should be able to
post that without getting attacked and deleted, shouldn't they?
      Anyway, a large part of the reason why I left was that I was not
that impressed with the way the founders handled the various
situations like that.. Sometimes it just felt like Mob Rule over
there and the founders were sometimes not above jumping into the
attacking.. and needlessly so..
      Yeesh, I have never regretted leaving.. in fact, I regret having
stayed there as long as I did!  At first I wondered if DarkJicin was
a troublemaker or something but.. I joined her Spirit club months ago
and find her to be a fair moderator - we really have not had any
problems over there.. the odd skirmish but no big fights and nothing
deleted, and *no one* has felt the need to leave the club due to the
way it's moderated... (Ehhh, which can definitely NOT be said of The
Balto League.. people have left even in the past several months due
to fights over the Balto 2 Ban, and that is really telling.  But the
founders still don't get it...?)  There are over 400 people in that
Spirit club, and we faced the same "Spoiler Issue" with the release
of *that* film, only we solved the thing bloodlessly and with no
fighting at all.. I am really pleased to be a part of that Spirit
group- it's awesome and a testament to how successful a club can be
when it's sensibly run.

:o)
--Baltoship


     --- In baltosanctuary@y..., "sparf1" <sparf1@y...> wrote:
> I appreciate the support, Baltoship. Thank you. But, I must also
say
> this. My problems with TBL have never been with the founders.
> They're all good friends of mine and were all invited here as
> moderators, though a few are far too busy with other clubs
including
> TBL to join.
>
> I just am tired of the unwashed masses dictating what can and
cannot
> be said. Long live the blue ribbon campaign.

I appreciate the support, Baltoship. Thank you. But, I must also say
this. My problems with TBL have never been with the founders.
They're all good friends of mine and were all invited here as
moderators, though a few are far too busy with other clubs including
TBL to join.

I just am tired of the unwashed masses dictating what can and cannot
be said. Long live the blue ribbon campaign.

Well, I know this is a tiny little group right now, but I want to
offer my support and thanks to the person who decided to make another
Balto group as an option for those who are fed up with The Balto
League (And I sure am, and have been for a long time!)
      That place is awful.  All they do over there is delete posts and
flame anybody who has a dissenting opinion! And if you put up a
warning about a controversial post, you're in the clear, but if you
put up a *spoiler* warning before you discuss Balto 2, well then you
get flamed to high hell.  (What sense does that make?)

    This is the trouble, see.. that I believe in this thing called
Free Speech?  And I also believe that a club should accomodate ALL
its members, NOT just the ones who HAVEN'T seen Balto 2, but
*everyone* in the group.  So this seriously puts me at odds with the
founders over at The Balto League.


    I wish there were lots of *different* Balto groups so that people
would have options.  As it is, it's like The league is this gigantic
monopoly (that I think is *really* poorly moderated, BTW.) that is
your only choice if you want to go online and talk about Balto or
(GASP!) Balto 2 or (OH MY GOD!! How dare you?) Balto 3.  Yes... how
dare we discuss such topics at a Balto group?
    Heh heh.  Unless your DWKing.  Then you can, and even post
pictures.. because he is like a god over there and is above the silly
law.  (Don't get me wrong, DWKing is a terrific guy and I respect him
a lot.. but through no fault of his own, he gets preferential
treatment over there and I don't think it's fair to the rest of the
group.  If anyone else had put up those Balto 2 pics, they would have
been deleted and criticized, insulted for not heeding the total and
complete "BAN" on Balto 2...)
     I am confused as to why The League is like the only egroup in the
entirety of Yahoo that does not understand how to solve the sequel/
spoiler problem, and instead makes idiotic rules that CAUSE more
problems than they solve.  It is just silly and childish and,
moreover.. *totally unneccessary*.
    And the deleting posts... that is just as bad.  They'll delete
anything for no good reason!

     I am aware that people over there think I'm some kind of
muckraker or troublemaker or whatnot.  Sometimes I get the feeling
they think I'm "evil" or something!  :o)
     I am just a person who wants a Balto group that will give fair
and equitable treatment to ALL its members--  a place where everyone
is allowed to post up their opinions without being attacked or
deleted!  Especially, a place where people are responsible enough to
put up spoiler and other warnings where necessary, and *respect*
those warnings and not whine and complain after they have willingly
read such posts!
     I guess that's a lot to ask, huh?

    Well, I am definitely optimistic about this group.. It is
wonderful that it is called a "Sanctuary".. because that is exactly
what an egroup needs to be!  A protector of peoples' rights to
discuss things and share their ideas freely!
    No More "BANNING" of discussions.. what kind of a club is that?
Warnings are what it's all about, and that is the way to give
*everyone* consideration at the group.  That means we are all
responsible for what we post, and what we read.

    Long LIVE the Sanctuary!!

("Ring! Ring!")  (Swinging clumsily on the bell rope...Baltoship is
not half as graceful as Quasi doing this...)

   Thank you again, to the founder of this group.  Even if it does not
have hundreds of (disenchanted) members like The Balto League, at
least it is HERE as an alternative-- And it is already a much greater
success than TBL, because at least is stands for something- namely
freedom of speech !

:o)
--Baltoship